Excellent Dialogues with Candice Watters

I just got done listening to two excellent dialogues with Candice Watters on the Boundless Show. Both of them are right at the beginning, so, you will not have to go jumping around to find where the discussion begins:

http://fotf.cdnetworks.net/boundless/mp3/boundless058.mp3

http://fotf.cdnetworks.net/boundless/mp3/boundless059.mp3

I thought the woman who was taking Candice to task,  Dr. Juli Slattery, did an excellent job at asking some penetrating questions. The end of the discussion basically came down to the fact that a woman feels grief because she is not married, and how terrible that is. Now, I don’t know that much about Dr. Slattery, but she did not seem to be reformed in her theology. I looked at the page they gave in the show notes, and could not find anything, but I believe that, at the point of the second program, when Candice starting talking about men and porn and so forth, being the cause of women’s grief in not finding a spouse, the  discussion needed to shift towards the sovereignty of God at that point.

I wrote the following comments that I would like to add as an addendum to these two podcasts. I think together they demonstrate that what is driving this system is female grief because of the fact that they are unmarried, and not the exegesis of the text of scripture:

Hey Everyone!

I completely enjoyed the discussion with Dr. Slattery. There were a couple of points I thought were really good, and I wanted to bring them out.

I think that Dr. Slattery made a good distinction between individuals and the culture. While they are certainly related, they are not the same thing. I do believe that, for some reason, women have the tendency to want marriage so bad that they do make an idol out of it.

However, one thing that didn’t get brought out is that God is sovereign over all. He ordains whatsoever comes to pass [Ephesians 1:11]. In essence, the short reason why people are single is because God has ordained it to be such. You might say, “Couldn’t their lack of pursuit cause it?” The simple answer is that God even ordains that they will not pursue marriage. God did not wake up surprised that these people are not married, but he is working out his plan in all of this.

While the desire for marriage is something that is perfectly good and natural, we also need to remember that God is working all things for our good [Romans 8:28]. That, I think, is really the issue. Because God is sovereign, and works whatsoever comes to pass in our own lives for our good, the question then simply becomes one of submission. Are you willing to submit that desire for marriage to God, and trust in him to do with it what he wants, even if it means denying it? If the answer to that question is “no,” then one must ask how you will be able to submit to a husband who is not perfect, when you cannot even submit your desires to the one who is perfect [God]?

That is what I think most churches are getting at when they very sloppily say, “Once you give up the desire for marriage, God will give it to you.” A better way to put it is, “Once you submit the desire to be married to God, and allow him to do with it what he pleases, he will be more likely to give it to you.”

I also think that the male bashing that goes on is actually evidence of this very thing. God’s word says that, once you marry one of these terrible, horrible men who are so immature that they will not pursue you, then you must submit to that man, faults and all. Again, if you cannot even submit the desire to be married to God who is perfect, then how will you be able to submit to these lowly men?

God Bless,
Adam

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2 Responses to “Excellent Dialogues with Candice Watters”

  1. Ame Says:

    i spent some time once, on romans 8:28, and this is what i learned.

    “And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.”

    we are all being called from a plethora of different places … boiled down to God and Satan … but there are many who are calling us who want us … people, church, family, strangers, aquaintances, etc … and they all have a purpose for why they are calling out to us to do what they want us to do. God, too, of course, is calling out to us … for His purposes.

    when we choose the callings of God over every other out of our love for God, then we are choosing His purposes. and here’s the cool thing about the purposes of God … the purposes of God are to cause all things to work together for good for those who choose to love Him.

    no one else can have as pure a motive as God for our own good, no one.

    ***

    i agree that God is Sovereign, and that He is bigger than anything that we can imagine. I also agree with you that there are no surprises to God. I also agree with you that He allows/ordains things to happen … within the context of the character of who He is and the laws He created. He does not stretch or break either His laws or His character.

    for example, my dad sexually abused me. could God have stoped that? certainly. but He didn’t b/c He chose to give man the freedom to make his/her own choices. my dad’s choice was to abuse me in this, and other, ways.

    while working through the sexual abuse, God gave me several visions. in more than one of the visions, God showed me how He protected me. it was incredible beyond my ability to articulate, but i can still see them so clearly i could draw them. what God taught me was that, although He must allow my dad to choose to abuse me, God could, and did, choose to protect me from some of the abuse … and He chose how far Satan could go (which He vividly showed me in one of the visions).

    all of this, of course, seems to raise more questions than answers … as i’ve had many more questions than answers in my whole life. but one thing i absolutely believe is true … God IS Sovereign, He IS Holy, He IS Just, and His justice WILL prevail. also, God always works within His character and His laws. always. He is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow, and that will NEVER change, for God will NOT be mocked.

    why are some still unmarried? i do not know. why is porn, for both men and women, allowed to be so prevalent and destructive? i do not know. why are so many marriages miserable? i do not know. i have few answers .. and the more i learn, and the closer i become to God, the fewer answers i have, but the more peace i have.

    it is sad that some want to blame all men or all women or all something on why certain things are allowed. the reality is man is born into sin. does this free us from looking for answers and solutions? nope. but it also doens’t free us to just start blaming people.

  2. manilastudents Says:

    I’ll be posting this over at singlechristian.org, thanks!

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